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9:51 am
VIP Coaching Program Members
August 10, 2010
Hey guys, Im starting to up my game so Im starting to practice being more aggressive at the service return toeing the line. I want to know any tips for getting back for flick.
The funny thing is I usually stand about a foot back from front line and can smash down 9/10 flick serves but this extra foot forward its more am getting caught 9/10 with the flick.
Also I want to ask about the grip and racket position. Im guessing if the shuttle is behind me like if your watching the pros, the normal basic grip isnt enough. Would u use a thumb grip ere??
Philip
1:48 pm
April 15, 2010
I'm in exactly the same position as you at the moment so I'll be interested to see what other people say.
The only tips I have at the moment is to ensure there is plenty of tension in you front leg so you can really explode backwards if needs be.
I have also altered my attitude, I no longer try to smash flick serves as I'm not getting in a good position to do this. I just accept that if it is a good flick serve I will put a good length clear in and carry on from there. If I am constantly flicked then I will move my stance back and smash.
(As always I'm talking from a doubles perspective)
Rob
2:12 am
June 15, 2010
As someone who is playing with/ against a buddy who is trying to learn how to toe the line, I'm anxious to see this discussion as well. For the level I play at I'm not sure i see the logic of toe'ing, at the expense of turning a flick serve into an attacking return instead of a defensive clear.
Not to mention that my buddy is so paranoid at getting flicked, which he does, frequently, that when he does receive a short serve he's is either moving backward in anticipation or has no idea how to receive the serve because he's a foot closer.
I know that in my buddy's case are his dilemna is skill related, we are just rec. players, but perhaps I can learn something form this discussion that might help him, or at least appeal to his logic and make him stop, lol
Marc
2:33 pm
February 15, 2011
Guys
I did extensive testing on this particular topic last year and introduced my findings to the players at Lilleshall last time. As a result, we saw a lot of changes in players stance and hand/racket position – all having a massive positive effect on their return of serve.
The difficulty I have here is describing what we did, the results we got, as you need to see rather than read – however I'll give you a few pointers.
First of all we looked at the players stance. What was evident with all players was that they did not load their legs well enough to spring into action either going forward for the low serve or backwards for the flick. So the first thing we did was get the legs ready for action.
Second. I spent a lot of time looking at the position of the front foot. Most players have the foot pointing slightly inwards, not quite at 45% to the net, but certainly at an angle. If you look at what your feet must do to either spring forward or push off, this was clearly not helping the explosive movement one way or another.
What I changed was simple. Point your non-racket foot directly at the server. Let's be logical for one moment in case you are questioning my reasoning here. If your foot is pointing to the right of the server and you move forward, either your foot has to adjust position, or you run the risk of going over on your ankle. If you are standing on the balls of your feet, you are also pushing across your shoe/grip and not along/down it – could be important.
By pointing your non-racket foot at your opponent, you are allowing yourself more time to move directly towards the shuttle – i.e. you are moving in a straight line. The shortest distance between you and the shuttle is therefore the shortest distance.
What about flicks? Well, your left foot is placed so that you can push off directly towards the flicked target area, and therefore this tends to be faster, especially with legs primed. Try it.
Hand position is also important. What I discovered is that most players hands are too high. If they are, this means the racket head cannot work at it's optimum position. Most players flatten the racket head which restricts the return choice and quality that can be played.
I tested lowering the hands so that the racket head worked around net height. By doing this I discovered that the hands were easily fast enough for drives and flicks, but the best results were in the return of serve. Players were still able to play push/drive/block from the return with significantly greater accuracy, and this opened up a far greater range of shots including brush returns, drives at the servers partner (incredibly effective).
OK, I've done my best to answer a difficult question without video. Sorry, but I haven't the time to film right now. If you're still struggling, then if I get the chance, i will record an answer at Lilleshall – although with 26 players coming along I doubt I will have the time.
As always, let me know your thoughts. Rob, you have the advantage as you can always have a private session with me seeing as you live around 30 minutes from me.
Paul
10:46 am
VIP Coaching Program Members
August 10, 2010
I def agree with the lower racket head position. Above net tape height is awkward. But at net height so top of racket head is in line with the top of the net seems to improve the quality of low service return.
I will def place my non racket foot directly facing my opponent and give it ago.
What about feet movement. Quick Chassee all the way?? Or is there a faster way back?
9:34 am
February 15, 2011
10:39 am
VIP Coaching Program Members
August 10, 2010
Paul said:
Phil
With your height, you should be able to take one chasse and a jump, especially if you have loaded your legs correctly in your stance.
Paul
Thanks Paul, I will keep this in mind. I was playin stronger players on friday with my new toeing the line stance and I was only caught couple times on flick. Got 8/10 of them back with either clear or smash (smash needs more power and needs to be steeper) but def improvement on past few weeks!!
3:44 pm
February 15, 2011
Phil
Well done! I knew it would work. After all, I spent 3 months testing this with good players and they all noticed a huge difference in response.
If you remember way back when you first approached me for help with your movement, i suggested the first movement backwards was the kicking your bum out to stop your head leading.
If you get your stance correct, this movement is unneccessary as the hips are already in place for moving forwards or backwards in balance.
Paul
4:59 pm
February 15, 2011
How much has toeing the line helped you guys ?
I've tried it and haven't really seen a lot of advantage apart from maybe intimidating the server.
I stand 2-3 feet behind the line and have no problem killing a loose serve, I have a decent smash, a good fast drop and no problem clearing on my backhand so it's quite rare anyone will try a flick serve more than 3 times in a game.
I honestly can't remember the last time I was caught out by a flick serve.
As for serving, I'll only flick if I see the receiver being overly aggressive and twitching to attack me, I have a tendancy to wander after I flick which makes it tricky for my partner to cover.
Anyway, be good to know how anyone else has found it, I've always got about 10 things to try and have to get out of the habit of trying them all at once.
7:00 pm
April 15, 2010
“I've tried it and haven't really seen a lot of advantage apart from maybe intimidating the server.”
That's one of the big benefits as far as I'm concerned!
If your opponent is wary of you it can be worth several free points a game in serves into the net. When playing league games it's such an advantage to have big pressure on your opponents serve. If you're not stood aggressively for the return of serve they can relax and gain confidence putting the pressure back on you as the returner.
I remember the session in Lilleshall last year Paul, and still have my notes on my wall! Brilliant advice that I'm still working hard to fully implement.
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